Do pilots receive the same salary

Community / Comments on breaking news / "We're starting with the bad apples"

Post from April 9th, 2021 - 9:00 a.m.
Exactly this contempt for human beings are the "values" of the managers of the low-costers. Both with the staff and with the pax.
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 9:17 am
To speak of all LCC at this point does not do the matter justice!
There is certainly one problem with this airline and with two others, but there have also been contrary developments in this crisis.
In fact, some LCC have sat down with the unions and saved a surprising number of jobs without deteriorating their condition in the long term ...
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 9:39 am
It is precisely this contempt for human beings that are the "values" of the low-coster managers. Both with the staff and with the pax.

If so, Darwin Triggs would be promoted, not fired. Therefore your statement is not entirely true.

You are pretty naive. As long as this mantra is only lived internally, everything is fine. Such people are only fired if the company image is damaged by external effects.
And that underlines exactly the statement made: As long as you are of use as a slave driver, you are the best man. If you see the dirt from the outside, then you are away from the window.
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 11:22 am
That shows the real problem again. If the supply is significantly higher than the demand, prices fall. At the same time, low prices create growing demand. On the other hand, there is the ideal of some here: LCC must be banned, then the remaining pilots will get 500,000 per year. But that's only 20 men and they have to fly 348 hours a day. Mmhhh ???
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 11:37 am
and they have to fly 348 hours a day
Together or per nose?
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 11:43 am
and they have to fly 348 hours a day
Together or per nose?
Pro nose, otherwise everyone can do it. The trend is rising, due to the current workload.
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 11:57 a.m.
Honestly, what's wrong with sorting out the 'bad apples'? Should one also punish the hard-working, committed ones? Of course, those with the least interest in the job fly first. Of course, this does not apply to Krankheiz, etc.
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 12:08 pm
Honestly, what's wrong with sorting out the 'bad apples'? Should one also punish the hard-working, committed ones? Of course, those with the least interest in the job fly first. Of course, this does not apply to Krankheiz, etc.
Do you seriously think that someone there is interested in whether it is through no fault of their own or not?
Such behavior (to dispose of the supposedly low-performers in business terms) is the hallmark of most airlines with no tariff ...
What does this lead to (i.e. in real life)?
For fear of the consequences, many drag themselves to work,
endanger security and infect your colleagues ...
Great, right?
There are a few “bad apples” everywhere, in every big company, in every department. Shouldn't you just accept that instead of putting the whole shop in fear of calling in sick?
Often enough experienced that flight attendants drag themselves to duty sick in order to "prove" how sick they are, and then to be "graciously" sent home by a superior ...
Result then, delayed departure, because a replacement has to be provided, shortly before just under sometimes difficult ...
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 12:54 p.m.
There are a few "bad apples" everywhere, in every large company, in every department. If you don't just accept that ...
Apparently this was actually done in "good times". At the moment they don't seem to have the dough for it.
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 5:26 pm
It is not acceptable to leave such a decision to just one person (the base captain) without taking notice of the performance or anything else.

There were pilots with good performance, no conflicts, no sick days or other problems being laid off, and lots of real bad apples with poor performance that sometimes create a toxic atmosphere that kept their jobs. All of this is based on a single person's personal opinion, which can be biased. That's just not okay and I speak from personal experience.
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 5:58 pm
It is not acceptable to leave such a decision to just one person (the base captain) without taking notice of the performance or anything else.
Which airline are you talking about? Wizz? This is not stated in the article, do you have any internal information that proves this? Are you even a pilot and maybe concerned too?
There were pilots with good performance, no conflicts, no sick days or other problems being laid off, and lots of real bad apples with poor performance that sometimes create a toxic atmosphere that kept their jobs. All of this is based on a single person's personal opinion, which can be biased. That's just not okay and I speak from personal experience.
I find that exciting now. I recently learned here that you cannot measure the performance of pilots, and even if you do, that this would be counterrodictive in the context of just culture and safety. Now you are saying that those with poor performance were not sorted out after all. How does it work?

This entry was edited on 04/09/2021 6:00 PM.
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 11:32 pm
It is not acceptable to leave such a decision to just one person (the base captain) without taking notice of the performance or anything else.
Which airline are you talking about? Wizz? This is not stated in the article, do you have any internal information that proves this? Are you even a pilot and maybe concerned too?
There have been pilots with good performance, no conflicts, no sick days or other problems being laid off, and lots of real bad apples with poor performance that sometimes create a toxic atmosphere that kept their job. All of this is based on a single person's personal opinion, which can be biased. That's just not okay and I speak from personal experience.
I find that exciting now. I recently learned here that you cannot measure the performance of pilots, and even if you do, that this would be counterrodictive in the context of just culture and safety. Now you are saying that those with poor performance were not weeded out after all. How does it work?

The article here is based on a leaked recording of a meeting between Darwin Triggs and the base captains. When the pilots were fired a year ago, they were told that the layoffs were based on their performance and not on a person's subjective opinion.

From the recordings and the following actions you can see how dubious the whole situation was and everyone involved can confirm this, whether they were affected or not.

You know the company and its “just culture” suspiciously well. Do you work for Wizz?

P.S. I'm sure the layoffs have something to do with Just culture or any culture at all.
Post from April 9th, 2021 - 11:48 pm
When the pilots were fired a year ago, they were told that the layoffs were based on their performance and not on a person's subjective opinion.
Here we are again at contrail55 and gordon. How do you measure the performance of an aircraft operator? Do you have an idea? Pilots have already written here several times that it cannot be measured objectively.
Post from 04/10/2021 - 12:26 am
When the pilots were fired a year ago, they were told that the layoffs were based on their performance and not on a person's subjective opinion.
Here we are again at contrail55 and gordon. How do you measure the performance of an aircraft operator? Do you have an idea? Pilots have already written here several times that it cannot be objectively measured.
Of course, the performance is assessed by pilots, I don't know any profession in which more exams have to be completed each year. 2x Sim and a line check are the standard. There are minimum legal requirements and, depending on the airline, certain higher standards that have to be met Of course there are always those who just get through and others who stay far below their personal performance limits and of course sometimes those who need to be "trained" afterwards.
Technical knowledge, manual flying, all possible emergency situations, the handling of these, as well as "soft skills" such as CRM and leadership qualities as well as decision making, e.g. to name just a few. The whole thing is of course documented.
In the case of Wizz Air and the cancellations, however, it was about a different kind of service ... sick leave, willingness to work on days off, willingness to exceed the maximum service time and the general attitude of some in doubt, possibly placing profitability over safety , although this is just a guess I made after 25 years as a pilot with some airlines ...
Please do not confuse the whole thing with the topic that pilots are paid according to performance, because this is very rarely the case, i.e. the same function and company affiliation, usually the same salary ...
Post from April 10, 2021 - 1:28 a.m.
... and the general attitude of some in case of doubt to possibly put profitability over safety, although this is only a guess ...
Then you should avoid knocking such nails into the wall here if it's just a guess -
which I have collected after 25 years as a pilot with some airlines ...
In 25 years some airlines collected so so. Where we have learned that you are helpless at the mercy of your exploiter if you don't want to start from scratch every time. I just think of it as my part.
Please do not confuse this with the topic that pilots are paid according to their performance, because this is very seldom the case, i.e. the same function and company affiliation, usually the same salary ...
Would you agree to forego your salary if you only paid 80% tomorrow instead of the usual 100%? Or would you fear that then arbitrariness & nasal factor would open the door and gate? I think most of them benefit quite a lot from the fact that it is the way it is.

This entry was edited on 04/10/2021 1:29 AM.