How do INTPs work in society
“My INTP has stopped working” - Why this personality type is considered lazy
So ... in my absence there was a veritable flood of comments from both of you. So one by one, let's start with that, as announced.
"What is new to me is that INTP (unless you are an ENFJ / INFP / ESFJ in disguise) pay close attention to political correctness (which even throws us back)."
I find it interesting that you are holding back the INFJ in your listing. In any case, I don't quite understand where you want to see “political correctness” in my defense against S-types. Anyway, a rather inflationary term, in my opinion ...
ANSWER: You obviously don't realize yourself that you are politically correct. I understand you. You can't throw shit around without make-up on your own public blog here. You don't do that as a good host. No problem, I can understand your point of view. If something looks like shit and smells like shit, feels like shit and even tastes like shit, then it IS shit too ... and you fucking gotta say it when it's appropriate. I'm getting too old to keep paying attention to other people's feelings.
“Because if you were surrounded by S-types like me and had studied their behavior, you would agree with me without hesitation. It has nothing to do with arrogance. If I had to write examples of immaturity (or whatever you want to call it ..), I would unfortunately have to write until Christmas ... (I know, that's not an argument, sorry). "
We can assume that we are all “surrounded” by S-types because they are simply more common in numbers - which is good because they are the ones who keep systems going. Personally, I usually get along better with other Intuers, but that doesn't mean that I automatically have reservations about 8 types. I've had difficult situations, especially with SJs who ended up berating me for robbing them of their belief in the good in people. Well, shit happens. That doesn't mean that every SJ, let alone every S-Tyo, is like that and I would advise you to get off your high horse and recognize that. You practically act as if you have eaten wisdom and insight with a spoon that you could allow yourself to make any comment about over 50% of humanity based on your "S degree". And no, that has nothing to do with political correctness.
ANSWER: Why should one keep this system running? Why do you write this as an alleged socialist? It's about 75%. S types. Of these approx. 45 traditional SJ and 30% actionist SP. 50% would be great but we live in an S-based system. The best example: the tax office, 1000 different types of subsidized money (housing benefit / child benefit blah blah ..) Authorities bureaucracy only because of bureaucracy. Exuberant self-administration. Everyone controls the other (surveillance state), prohibition culture (seat belt in the car / helmet compulsory). Why did 75% of Swiss people vote against an unconditional basic income? How many people vote for our system parties who, for example, play war and indirectly spread great suffering in the world? Guess what! it's over 70% of people. Do you notice something?!? Do you think the intuitive, the less detailed and hate micromenagement, have an easy stand? The work is not questioned (happy slaves). A purely intuitive one would make this much easier. By the way, I just skimmed your lyrics, sorry. After a closer reading it is pretty clear that you are the INTP architect. My wife also confirms that you use the same arguments as her INTP sister.
Back to the sensors. They all have this nearsightedness and immaturity. You can lump them all together. Not a single one would understand / suspect what we are writing here. There is just a lack of intuition. They are like vicious dogs. Sooner or later, they'll bite you. You are also satisfied with your simplicity. Save yourself the time teaching sensory types. At best, they nod with encouraging expressions, but after a week at the latest they have forgotten everything or fall back into their cowardly bite pattern. At the moment I can also very strongly observe the pattern that they fight individually in groups on the Anfach. According to the pattern of pack, pack gets along. But the longer they get used to each other, they find themselves bonded together in a group, mostly through gossip against everything and everyone. They are led by the alpha animal. Mostly 100% pychopaths / sociopaths who then poison the environment even more mentally. It all starts at school (you know that) and continues in the work with medium to large groups, especially in authorities, etc. The study (N majority) is like paradise there. Maybe now you understand what I mean.
“I also feel (INFJs are proven to be very good at that) I also feel a hint of, how should I put it, injured pride? be upset? It is also not helpful to take apart every word of mine. "
That's cute, but, when you argue with an NTP, you should be prepared for your every word to be taken apart. As I said, my concern here is that, in my opinion, wrong theses cannot simply be left uncommented in the room, this has nothing to do with injured pride. If I start throwing swear words and personal attacks around me ... then you could rightly assume that I am. We are also welcome to have a discussion via voice or video chat, that might be more helpful because you would then not read any emotionality in lines where there is none.
ANSWER: OK, I agree with you. I'm wrong about that. My type doesn't work like yours, you have to understand that. When my intuition sees something in the ego, it is pictures that first have to be transformed into words very laboriously for me. A lot falls by the wayside. You have to think about the meaning of my statement (interpolation). Unfortunately, there is no other way. My intr. Thinking is in the child. In terms of quality, it will never be as big as with the INTP.
“As an intuitive type, you should be able to make sense of it. Many INFJs are of course tinged with esotericism. I don't count myself among them. I can't even say I'm over it You should read that too. "
That sounds a bit like an elite: "Ts, * I * have to express myself better and more precisely? So, if you had intuition, you could understand everything I say more precisely and read between the lines! "
ANSWER: You are confusing your logical thinking with intuition.
First - S-types can also read between the lines, to the extent (SF-types) that they sometimes see phantoms where there are none, for example because they see personal attacks in sober remarks.
Second - I am also able to read between the lines with you, but since I do not want to make a bad picture of you based on a gut feeling, I first want to ask more precisely out of fairness to you ...
ANSWER: slowly your black and white thinking makes me think. Just because a blind hen finds a grain one day, it doesn't see it right away. ESFJ women, for example, who make up the majority of women, from whom many female clichés come from, have intuition (truth function) in 7th position (joke and lies function). So if between reading the lines there is intr. Intuition (which I am sure you will agree with) these women spin something together with their infantile intuition, which unfortunately also counts as female intuition in society. This also explains the conflict between INTJ and ESFJ. The same applies to the thinking function which is the 8th for this type! Function is what feminine logic is in society. And these women and men dominate and shape society. Do you now notice how ugly that is for the purely intuitive in this world?
Accordingly - especially as far as the passage I quoted about you is concerned, you expressed yourself so imprecisely that I could only come up with assumptions, which I could in no way confirm myself. "You don't count yourself to esoteric INFJs" - okay, that's clear. "You are not over it" - what do you mean? That makes no sense, purely linguistically you are referring to the previous sentence and in the context that would mean: "I do not belong to esoteric INFJs and I am not over it". This is particularly strange because you yourself tend to proclaim a negative attitude towards esotericism. So one can rather say that you cannot express yourself very precisely and that you have had bad experiences with people (probably ESFJ / ENFJ) who annoyed you with esotericism and you * are * not over it. But * that * would actually be an assumption on my part, which first need confirmation from you.
ANSWER: You really have to say "Intelligence doesn't protect against stupidity". Sentences like “It's darker at night than outside” will likely make your hair stand on end. If everyone had to express themselves precisely, there would be no prose, for example. That is apparently another dimension for you. Of course, that doesn't make sense, but because of the irritation I would like to underline my basic statement. Abstract art works the same way. Instead of accepting your basic message (not esothermic), you take it all apart. That just underscores your stupidity in this area.
"It is just one example of your allegations that obviously do not help to find the truth."
I find it very interesting that you reproach that * my allegations * do that.
"Note: the main stereotype in terms of esotericism is mMn the ESFJ and the ENFJ. By the way, I speak from experience when I speak of INTPs with an esoteric touch (raised by ESFJ and not moved out of laziness> more influence from ESFJ!) "
Please explain to me why you think the ESFJ is more important than the INFJ as I sit back in amusement and try to untangle your cryptic accounts. You see, that's what I mean by baseless claims. I can also say that the sky is purple with green dots. Please, if you come up with allegations in a discussion (especially with NTPs), do not be surprised that you are being "stopped" from supporting them with arguments. You say you speak from experience with INTPs, then you should actually know that yourself: introverted thinking takes apart * everything * that you say in a discussion.
ANSWER: That's what I mean by the Cassandra complex of my type. I just know it. But nobody believes me. Again for you: I have the intr. Intuition in the ego, the 1st place. The more experience I collect in my life (through extr. Sensing) I feed the intuition which makes more and more connections and connections in the head. It's about truthfulness not what society tries to teach you (keyword (intr. Sensing). I realize that you can never get 100% to the complete truth. For this you would have to be omnipresent (probably you could even predict the future Errors only creep in when one hears or reads 3. reports / interpretations from others. That does not always have to be correct. My intuition is poisoned by this prejudice.
I just watched the above example several times. My intuition tells me it has to be. The ESFJ is simply too lazy to think at least once to googel that the Himalayan salt is not healthier than normal but probably has even more impurities. The guy wants simple answers (like other S-types too). That is why esotericism is so successful. Personal experience with my boss! Even my smartest ESTJ colleague claimed Globoli work. He was sure. These are not prejudices (you are obviously stuffed with stretching keyword judging) but personal observation. But I have to admit that I consciously never noticed my type in public (I only exist 0.5 times as a man) and can only assume myself. So there is a (small) chance that you are not entirely wrong.
“On theology: it is nice to read a fairy tale or only interesting to understand the mess that has happened and to iron it out again. So continue to control the sheep. In this way mankind has created a problem for itself, what if it didn't exist, if it weren't there. "
Well, that would have answered the question that you were an atheist or at least an agnostic. In your assertion, however, I do not just disagree with you as a Christian (unhealthy environment?: D), especially not when it comes to your derogatory manner about Thelogy as a whole. Although I am fundamentally skeptical of religions, it would never occur to me to disparage the theories on which they are based as fairy tales from the outset. I find it highly adventurous that you are doing this as a self-diagnosed INFJ. It is not expedient to speak from experience, especially if both discussion partners question the other's experience and the conclusions drawn from it, but I still want to make it clear again (also for my readers) that the INFJs that I Because of the importance that belief and religion have for people, I hardly ever speak disrespectfully about these highly sensitive points.
If I start defending religion now, however, then we will open a huge, new barrel, which would make the scope of this already widespread discussion much more confusing, which is why I will forego it, even if it burns my fingers .
ANSWER: yes, we don't open a new barrel (if there is no religion you don't even have to think about opening a case). I have my own values. But that really gets too phylosophical and spongy (as you know, that's not yours)
“By the way, thank you for the stimulating discussion. Is the first time that I write in a blog. "
You are welcome. Discussions are my hobby.
FYI: the INFJ speaks confused and metaphorical. I also hate myself for not being able to write my thoughts clearly let alone express them * howl *. "
"" What is a typical "INTP truth"? “Now I'm getting dizzy. We can save ourselves the discussion, since we are obviously talking past each other. You could possibly be teacher ENFJ maybe even ESFJ (I'm shaking it right through brrr). It seems to be more important how you talk and what you are allowed to say (it has to be politically correct!) The truth doesn't seem to really interest you, even to trigger you (in a moment you will ask again “what is the truth in your opinion? ? ...). "
Just so you can understand my train of thought. I asked a question about an extremely nebulous claim. I ask you to describe specifically. If I analyze your reaction now, it leads me to conclude that you are not actually able to get to the point what you actually meant - consciously or subconsciously this annoys you, you are now projecting your inadequacy onto me and again again assume that I would not understand you, which must definitely be the type. Here, too, you read my alleged need for political correctness into it (completely inappropriate, I just asked for a specific answer that makes your claim more understandable in some way), consciously or unconsciously, when you ask me, you try to get one Answer to press.
ANSWER: Yes, I admit it, I am guilty, I cannot. I said it several times in the discussion. You cannot ask a man with no fingers to boog or see a blind man. It makes it difficult for me to read your texts carefully ;-). Logic is exhausting for my little head. I am disabled for that. To you as a Christian I say you just have to believe * laugh *. But you are also disabled when it comes to my form of communication. I communicate with extr. Feel. We'd probably have to meet sometime. Irony off. It is simply not possible for me to explain your important question in a timely manner and in this form.
“Sorry if it all comes across as trolling now. I like to provoke a little for fun. "
Where exactly do you think you provoked a little bit? Depending on how much I interpret your answer / s, that could be anything you write down to nothing at all.
ANSWER: * laugh * you are right! I don't know myself.
"But you should be able to filter out the quintessence of my statements as an intuitive."
There it is again: "If you were intuitive, you would understand me!"
No, you are simply expressing yourself in such a way that - especially for intuers - there are too many ways to interpret your answer, which is a reason for me to ask you to express yourself a little more precisely. Come on i believe in you Even INFJs, if you are one, are able to do this! Don't use your supposed type as an excuse 🙂
ANSWER: OK, I can do better. I notice that towards the end of discussions you become more sensible, even funny. My INTP sister-in-law supports me with the same arguments as well. * Laughs *
"I consider your last part to be rel. truthful. Maybe you had your emotions under control again ;-). If I think about it, you could also be a particularly logically thinking INFP (contradiction in terms? ;-)) "
My wife is an INFP if she would hear that assumption about me ... - but don't worry, I'm not going to use that as an argument now. I can tell a lot, can't I? Where do you think you've read out that I haven't got my emotions under control?
ANSWER: Maybe I am wrong too. Is just a feeling. INFPs are by far the most gifted artistically (as an excuse). But she is not your ideal partner. You have the same relationship as I do with my wife (INTJ). * whisper * look for something more suitable! * laugh *
"Finding the truth" - is nothing at all, because your pretty word describes your own process of "finding" (...) and I have only given one example to make something understandable for you. "Truth-finding" in this discussion are more my less successful attempts to get you to support allegations with arguments or at least to explain how you came up with them.
ANSWER: If you are still philosophical, we will not come close to the truth 😉
We speak different languages (dog and cat). With the difference that I understand you but you don't understand me (I know another statement). As an INFJ, I can change perspective and penetrate your big (analogous) head and suck out your thoughts, uh, read. I even feel like I'm predicting what you'll say next. Certainly the words will not come across as inflationary again. Best wishes
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